Sallie Krawcheck, a former executive at Bank of America Corp. and Citigroup Inc., called government fines and charges levied on the largest U.S. banks a tax on excess profits.
“There is a cost of overearning in which some of that money gets paid back to the government in fines,” Ms. Krawcheck said Wednesday at The Year Ahead: 2014, a two-day conference sponsored by Bloomberg in Chicago.
The six biggest U.S. lenders have piled up more than $100 billion in legal costs since the financial crisis, including settlements and lawyers’ fees, data compiled by Bloomberg show. JPMorgan Chase & Co., which posted three years of record profit through 2012, reached a $13 billion settlement tied to mortgage bond sales yesterday. The firm still faces criminal probes that range from possible bribery in Asia to its relationship with Ponzi scheme operator Bernard Madoff.
Top 5 International Companies To Watch For 2015: National Australia Bank Ltd (NAB)
National Australia Bank Limited provides products, advice and services. In Australia, it operates through National Australia Bank, MLC and UBank. In the United Kingdom, it operates through Clydesdale Bank. In New Zealand, it operates through Bank of New Zealand. In the United States, it operates through Great Western Bank. Segments include Business Banking, Personal Banking, Wholesale Banking, UK Banking and NZ Banking, MLC and NAB and Great Western Ban. As of April 5, 2012, the Company and its associated entities ceased to be a substantial holder in BlueScope Steel Limited. On May 17, 2012, it ceased to be a substantial holder in Spark Infrastructure Group and Sandfire Resources NL. As of August 24, 2012, the Company and its associated entities ceased to be holder in Tabcorp Holdings Limited. In September 2012, the Company and its associated entities have ceased to be a substantial holder in Incitec Pivot Limited, as of August 30, 2012. Advisors' Opinion:- [By Yoshiaki Nohara]
Alacer Gold Corp. sank 4.1 percent in Sydney as the price of the precious metal declined. Honda Motor Co. (7267) lost 0.6 percent after Japan�� third-largest carmaker reported second-quarter profit that missed analysts��estimates amid slowing motorcycle sales in Southeast Asia. National Australia Bank Ltd. (NAB) retreated 2.3 percent as expenses climbed at the country�� largest lender by assets.
Top Bank Companies To Buy For 2014: Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group Inc (MTU)
Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group, Inc. (MUFJ), incorporated on April 2, 2001, is a holding company for The Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ, Ltd. (BTMU), Mitsubishi UFJ Trust and Banking Corporation (MUTB), Mitsubishi UFJ Securities Holdings Co., Ltd. (MUSHD), Mitsubishi UFJ Morgan Stanley Securities Co., Ltd.( MUMSS), Mitsubishi UFJ NICOS Co., Ltd. (Mitsubishi UFJ NICOS) and other companies engaged in a range of financial businesses. Its services include commercial banking, trust banking, securities, credit cards, consumer finance, asset management, leasing and fields of financial services. In May 2010, the Company and Morgan Stanley formed two joint ventures in Japan by integrating our respective Japanese securities companies engaged in investment banking and securities businesses. The Company converted the wholesale and retail securities businesses conducted in Japan by the former MUS into one of the joint venture entities, which is named MUMSS. Morgan Stanley contributed the investment banking operations conducted in Japan by its formerly wholly owned subsidiary, Morgan Stanley Japan Securities Co., Ltd. (MSJS) into MUMSS and converted the sales and trading and capital markets businesses conducted in Japan by MSJS into a second joint venture entity called Morgan Stanley MUFG Securities, Co., Ltd.
Integrated Retail Banking Business Group
The Integrated Retail Banking Business Group covers all domestic retail businesses, including commercial banking, trust banking and securities businesses, and enables the Company to offer a range of banking products and services, including financial consulting services, to retail customers in Japan. This business group integrates the retail business of BTMU, MUTB and MUMSS, as well as retail product development, promotion and marketing in a single management structure. Many of its retail services are offered through its network of MUFG Plazas providing individual customers with access to its financial product offerings of integrated commercial b! anking, trust banking and securities services.
The Company offers a range of bank deposit products, including a non-interest-bearing deposit account that is redeemable on demand and intended for payment and settlement functions, and is insured without a maximum amount limitation. It also offers a variety of asset management and asset administration services to individuals, including savings instruments, such as current accounts, ordinary deposits, time deposits, deposits at notice and other deposit facilities. MUFJ also offers trust products, such as loan trusts and money trusts, and other investment products, such as investment trusts, performance-based money trusts and foreign currency deposits.
The Company creates portfolios by combining savings instruments and investment products. It also provide a range of asset management and asset administration products, as well as customized trust products for high-net-worth individuals, as well as advisory services relating to the purchase and disposal of real estate and effective land utilization, and testamentary trusts. The Company provides a varied line up of investment trust products allowing its customers to choose products according to their investment needs through BTMU, MUTB and MUMSS, as well as kabu.com Securities, which specializes in online financial services. In the fiscal year ended March 31, 2010, BTMU offered a total of five investment trusts. As of the end of March 2010, BTMU offered its clients a total of 73 investment trusts.
The Company offers securities, including publicly offered stocks, foreign and domestic investment trusts, Japanese government bonds, foreign bonds and various other products. The Company offers housing loans, card loans and other loans to individuals. With respect to housing loans, in addition to housing loans incorporating health insurance for seven major illnesses, BTMU began offering in June 2009 preferential interest rates under its Environmentally Friendly Support program ! to custom! ers who purchase environment-conscious houses (like houses with solar electric systems), which meet specific criteria in response to increasing public interest in environmental issues. In September 2009, BTMU launched housing loans with home mortgage insurance, which BTMU jointly developed with the Japan Housing Finance Agency, a governmental agency under the Japanese government�� economic stimulus measures, under which the agency indemnifies BTMU for losses from housing loans.
The Company offers products and services through a range of channels, including branches, automated teller machines (ATMs) (including convenience store ATMs shared by multiple banks), Mitsubishi-Tokyo UFJ Direct (telephone, Internet and mobile phone banking), the Video Counter and postal mail. It offers integrated financial services combining its banking, trust banking and securities services at MUFG Plazas. These Plazas provide retail customers with integrated and flexible suite of services at one-stop outlets. As of March 31 2010, the Company provided those services through 47 MUFG Plazas. The Company offers MUTB�� trust related products and advisory services through its trust agency system not only for MUTB customers but also for BTMU and MUMSS customers. As of March 31, 2010, BTMU engaged in eight businesses as the trust banking agent for MUTB: testamentary trusts, inheritance management, asset succession planning, inheritance management agency operations, business management financial consulting, lifetime gift trusts, share disposal trusts, and marketable securities administration trusts.
Integrated Corporate Banking Business Group
The Integrated Corporate Banking Business Group covers all domestic and overseas corporate businesses, including commercial banking, investment banking, trust banking and securities businesses, as well as UnionBanCal Corporation (UNBC). UNBC is a wholly owned subsidiary of BTMU and a US bank holding company with Union Bank being its primary subsidiary. T! he Compan! y provides various financial solutions, such as loans and fund management, remittance and foreign exchange services. It also helps its customers develop business strategies, such as inheritance-related business transfers and stock listings.
It offers advanced financial solutions to companies through corporate and investment banking services. Product specialists globally provide derivatives, securitization, syndicated loans, structured finance and other services. It also provides investment banking services, such as merger and acquisition (M&A) advisory, bond and equity underwriting. It provides online banking services that allow customers to make domestic and overseas remittances electronically. It also provides a global cash pooling/netting service, and the Treasury Station, a fund management system for a multi-company group. The Company�� global Corporate and Investment Banking business (Global CIB), primarily serves companies, financial institutions, and sovereign and multinational organizations with a set of solutions for their financing needs.
Integrated Trust Assets Business Group
The Integrated Trust Assets Business Group covers asset management and administration services for products, such as pension trusts and security trusts by integrating the trust banking expertise of MUTB and the international strengths of BTMU. The business group provides a range of services to corporate and pension funds, including stable and secure pension fund management and administration, advice on pension schemes, and payment of benefits to scheme members. Its Integrated Trust Assets Business Group combines MUTB�� trust assets business, comprising trust assets management services, asset administration and custodial services, and the businesses of Mitsubishi UFJ Global Custody S.A., Mitsubishi UFJ Asset Management Co., Ltd. and KOKUSAI Asset Management Co., Ltd.
Advisors' Opinion:- [By Jim Jubak, Senior Markets Editor, MoneyShow.com]
The one currency that is running against the weak dollar tide is the Japanese yen. The yen initially climbed on the Fed's no taper decision—rising to 97.75 on the news—but then fell all the way back to 99 yen to the dollar and finished yesterday at 99.42. (Remember that since the yen is quoted in yen to the dollar, a higher number is a sign of a weak yen and a smaller number means the yen is getting stronger.) The thinking seems to be that the recent Japanese trade deficit will push the Bank of Japan to further weaken the yen, in order to boost Japanese exports. I continue to think that the yen will finish 2013 at weaker levels than current trading, and that leads me to continue to hold positions in Japanese stocks such as Toyota Motor (TM) and Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group (MTU). Both stocks are members of my Jubaks Picks portfolio.
- [By Jeff Reeves]
And though Mitsubishi UFJ Financial (MTU) has already tacked on an impressive 55% return since last November, there is still upside as Japan squeezes out a bit more growth and as the yen continues to trade at deep discounts to the Euro or the U.S. dollar.
- [By Jim Jubak]
Shares of Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group (8306:JP) in Japan or (MTU) in New York, kept on tumbling yesterday, despite unexpectedly positive earnings for the third quarter. Net income climbed to 255 billion yen ($2.5 billion) in the three months ended on December 31. That was a 5.4% increase from the December quarter of 2012, and beat the average estimate of 200 billion yen, by analysts surveyed by Bloomberg. The bank is now 86% of the way to its profit target for fiscal year that ends on March 31, 2014.
Top Bank Companies To Buy For 2014: Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corp (FMCC)
Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie Mac) conducts business in the United States residential mortgage market and the global securities market. The Company operates in three segments: Single-family Guarantee, Investments, and Multifamily. The Single-family Guarantee segment reflects results from the Company's single-family credit guarantee activities. The Investments segment reflects results from the Company's investment, funding and hedging activities. The Multifamily segment reflects results from the Company's investment (both purchases and sales), securitization, and guarantee activities in multifamily mortgage loans and securities. The Company conducts its operations in the United States and its territories.
Single-Family Guarantee Segment
In the Company�� Single-family Guarantee segment, it purchases single-family mortgage loans originated by the Company�� seller/servicers in the primary mortgage market. The Company uses the mortgage securitization process to package the purchased mortgage loans into guaranteed mortgage-related securities. The Company guarantees the payment of principal and interest on the mortgage-related security in exchange for management and guarantee fees. The Company�� customers are lenders in the primary mortgage market that originate mortgages for homeowners. These lenders include mortgage banking companies, commercial banks, savings banks, community banks, credit unions, Housing Finance Agency (HFAs), and savings and loan associations. The Company�� customers also service loans in its single-family credit guarantee portfolio.
Mortgage securitization is a process, by which the Company purchase mortgage loans that lenders originate, and pool these loans into mortgage securities that are sold in global capital markets. The United States residential mortgage market consists of a primary mortgage market that links homebuyers and lenders and a secondary mortgage market that links lenders and investors. The Company part! icipates in the secondary mortgage market by purchasing mortgage loans and mortgage-related securities for investment and by issuing guaranteed mortgage-related securities. In the Single-family Guarantee segment, it purchase and securitize single-family mortgages, which are mortgages that are secured by one- to four-family properties. The types of mortgage-related securities it issue and guarantee include PCs, REMICs and Other Structured Securities and Other Guarantee Transactions. The Company also issue mortgage-related securities to third parties in exchange for non-Freddie Mac mortgage-related securities. The non-Freddie Mac mortgage-related securities are transferred to trusts that were specifically created for the purpose of issuing securities, or certificates, in the Other Guarantee Transactions.
Investments Segment
In the Company�� Investments segment, it invests principally in mortgage-related securities and single-family performing mortgage loans, which are funded by other debt issuances and hedged using derivatives. In the Company�� Investments segment, it also provides funding and hedging management services to the Single-family Guarantee and Multifamily segments. The Company�� customers for its debt securities predominantly include insurance companies, money managers, central banks, depository institutions, and pension funds. The Company funds its investment activities by issuing short-term and long-term debt. The Company�� PCs are an integral part of its mortgage purchase program. The Company�� Single-family Guarantee segment purchases many of its mortgages by issuing PCs in exchange for those mortgage loans in guarantor swap transactions. The Company also issue PCs backed by mortgage loans that it purchased for cash.
Multifamily Segment
The Company�� multifamily segment issues Other Structured Securities, but does not issue REMIC securities. The Company multifamily segment also enters into other guarantee commitments for mult! ifamily H! FA bonds and housing revenue bonds held by third parties. The Company acquires a portion of its multifamily mortgage loans from several large seller/servicers.
The Company competes with Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae), Government National Mortgage Association (Ginnie Mae), Mae Federal Housing Administration/the United States Department of Veteran Affairs (FHA/VA) and Federal Home Loan Bank (FHLB).
Advisors' Opinion:- [By Anna Prior]
MGIC Investment Corp.(MTG) and Radian Group Inc.(RDN) criticized proposed standards for private-mortgage insurers seeking to do business with Fannie Mae (FNMA) and Freddie Mac (FMCC), claiming the level of liquid assets insurers would need to hold is excessive. MGIC shares slumped 13% to $8.00 premarket, while Radian shares fell 6.5% to $13.60.
- [By Dan Caplinger]
Interestingly, though, this analysis doesn't mention an important factor: Increasingly over the past decade, major mortgage lenders haven't held onto their loans but rather have sold them on to government-sponsored enterprises Fannie Mae (NASDAQOTCBB: FNMA ) and Freddie Mac (NASDAQOTCBB: FMCC ) . During the housing boom, mortgage lenders Bank of America (NYSE: BAC ) and Citigroup (NYSE: C ) didn't perform as well as they did because they were securing particularly high margins on their mortgage loans. Rather, they collected transaction-based income by immediately reselling conforming loans to Fannie and Freddie, often retaining streams of income from risk-free mortgage-servicing rights without keeping any liability for potential loan default. Even now, Wells Fargo (NYSE: WFC ) relies on strength in mortgage-related income, and decreases in refinancing activity pose a threat to income growth in future quarters -- although unlike many of its peers, Wells has actually retained a good portion of its loans on its own books.
- [By Dimitra DeFotis]
Investor Bill Ackman, who knows a thing or two about real estate, just made the case for reforming Fannie Mae (FNMA) and Freddie Mac (FMCC) but keeping them independent of government control.
Top Bank Companies To Buy For 2014: Morgan Stanley (INR)
Morgan Stanley, incorporated on January 10, 1981, is a global financial services company that, through its subsidiaries and affiliates, provides its products and services to a range of clients and customers, including corporations, governments, financial institutions and individuals. The Company is a financial holding company. The Company operates in three segments: Institutional Securities, Global Wealth Management Group and Asset Management. The Company provides financial advisory and capital-raising services to a group of corporate and other institutional clients worldwide. As of December 31, 2011, the Company�� Global Wealth Management Group had $1,649 billion in client assets. The Company�� Asset Management business segment offers clients an array of equity, fixed income and alternative investments and merchant banking services. In December 2013, the Company announced that it has sold the majority of its global physical oil trading operations to Rosneft' NK OAO.
Institutional Securities
The Company provides financial advisory and capital-raising services primarily through wholly owned subsidiaries that include Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC (MS&Co.), Morgan Stanley & Co. International plc and Morgan Stanley Asia Limited, and certain joint venture entities that include Morgan Stanley MUFG Securities Co., Ltd. (MSMS) and Mitsubishi UFJ Morgan Stanley Securities Co., Ltd. (MUMSS). The Company, primarily through these entities, also conducts sales and trading activities worldwide, as principal and agent, and provides related financing services on behalf of institutional investors. The Company manages and participates in public offerings and private placements of debt, equity and other securities worldwide. The Company is an underwriter of common stock, preferred stock and other equity-related securities, including convertible securities and American depositary receipts (ADRs). The Company is also an underwriter of fixed income securities, including investment-grade debt, non-i! nvestment-grade instruments, mortgage-related and other asset-backed securities, tax-exempt securities and commercial paper and other short-term securities.
The Company provides corporate and other institutional clients worldwide with advisory services on matters, such as mergers and acquisitions, divestitures, joint ventures, corporate restructurings, recapitalizations, spin-offs, exchange offers and leveraged buyouts and takeover defenses, as well as shareholder relations. The Company also provides advice concerning rights offerings, dividend policy, valuations, foreign exchange exposure, financial risk management strategies and financial planning. In addition, the Company provides advice and services regarding project financings and provides advisory services in connection with the purchase, sale, leasing and financing of real estate. The Company provides loans or lending commitments, including bridge financing, to selected corporate clients through its subsidiaries, including Morgan Stanley Bank, N.A (MSBNA).
The Company conducts sales, trading, financing and market-making activities on securities and futures exchanges and in over-the-counter (OTC) markets worldwide. The Company�� Institutional Securities sales and trading activities consists of Equity Trading; Fixed Income and Commodities; Clients and Services; Research, and Investments. The Company acts as principal (including as a market-maker) and agent in executing transactions worldwide in equity and equity-related products, including common stock, ADRs, global depositary receipts and exchange-traded funds. The Company�� equity derivatives sales, trading and market-making activities cover equity-related products worldwide, including equity swaps, options, warrants and futures overlying individual securities, indices and baskets of securities and other equity-related products. The Company also issues and makes a principal market in equity-linked products to institutional and individual investors.
The ! Company t! rades, invests and makes markets in fixed income securities and related products globally, including, among other products, investment and non-investment grade corporate debt, distressed debt, bank loans, the United States and other sovereign securities, emerging market bonds and loans, convertible bonds, collateralized debt obligations, credit, currency, interest rate and other fixed income-linked notes, securities issued by structured investment vehicles, mortgage-related and other asset-backed securities and real estate-loan products, municipal securities, preferred stock and commercial paper, money-market and other short-term securities. The Company is a dealer of the United States federal government securities and a member of the selling groups that distribute various the United States agency and other debt securities. The Company is also a dealer or market-maker of government securities in European, Asian and emerging market countries.
The Company trades, invests and makes markets globally in listed futures and OTC swaps, forwards, options and other derivatives referencing, among other things, interest rates, currencies, investment grade and non-investment grade corporate credits, loans, bonds, the United States and other sovereign securities, emerging market bonds and loans, credit indexes, asset-backed security indexes, property indexes, mortgage-related and other asset-backed securities and real estate loan products. The Company trades, invests and makes markets in foreign currencies, such as the British pound, Canadian dollar, euro, Japanese yen and Swiss franc, as well as in emerging markets currencies. The Company trades these currencies on a principal basis in the spot, forward, option and futures markets.
The Company advises on investment and liability strategies and assists corporations in their debt repurchases and tax planning. The Company invests and makes markets in the spot, forward, physical derivatives and futures markets in several commodities, including ! metals (b! ase and precious), agricultural products, crude oil, oil products, natural gas, electric power, emission credits, coal, freight, liquefied natural gas and related products and indices. The Company is a market-maker in exchange-traded options and futures and OTC options and swaps on commodities, and offers counterparties hedging programs relating to production, consumption, reserve/inventory management and structured transactions, including energy-contract securitizations and monetization. The Company is an electricity power marketer in the United States and owns electricity-generating facilities in the United States and Europe.
The Company owns TransMontaigne Inc. and its subsidiaries, a group of companies operating in the refined petroleum products marketing and distribution business, and owns a minority interest in Heidmar Holdings LLC, which owns a group of companies that provide international marine transportation and the United States marine logistics services. The Company provides financing services, including prime brokerage, which offers, among other services, consolidated clearance, settlement, custody, financing and portfolio reporting services to clients trading multiple asset classes. In addition, the Company�� institutional distribution and sales activities are overseen and coordinated through Clients and Services.
The Company�� research department (Research) coordinates worldwide across all of the Company�� businesses and consists of economists, strategists and industry analysts who engage in equity and fixed income research activities and produce reports and studies on the United States and global economy, financial markets, portfolio strategy, technical market analyses, individual companies and industry developments. The Company from time to time makes investments that represent business facilitation or other investing activities. From time to time, the Company may also make investments and capital commitments to public and private companies, funds and oth! er entiti! es. The Company�� Operations and Information Technology departments provide the process and technology platform that supports Institutional Securities sales and trading activity, including post-execution trade processing and related internal controls over activity from trade entry through settlement and custody, such as asset servicing.
Global Wealth Management Group
The Company�� Global Wealth Management Group, which includes the Company�� 51% interest in Morgan Stanley Smith Barney Holdings LLC (MSSB), provides financial services to clients. During the year ended December 31, 2011, the Company had a network of more than 17,500 global representatives in approximately 765 locations. Global Wealth Management Group professionals serve individual investors and small-to-medium sized businesses and institutions with focus on ultra-high-net-worth, high-net-worth and affluent investors. Global representatives are located in branches across the United States. Outside the United States, Global Wealth Management Group offers financial services to clients in Europe, the Middle East, Asia, Australia, Canada and Latin America.
The Company�� Global Wealth Management Group provides clients with an array of financial solutions, including products and services from the Company, Citigroup Inc. (Citi) and third-party providers, such as insurance companies and mutual fund families. Global Wealth Management Group provides brokerage and investment advisory services covering various types of investments, including equities, options, futures, foreign currencies, precious metals, fixed income securities, mutual funds, structured products, alternative investments, unit investment trusts, managed futures, separately managed accounts and mutual fund asset allocation programs. Global Wealth Management Group also engages in fixed income principal trading, which primarily facilitates clients��trading or investments in such securities. In addition, Global Wealth Management Group offers ! education! savings programs, financial and wealth planning services, and annuity and other insurance products.
Global Wealth Management Group offers its clients access to several cash management services through various banks and other third parties, including deposits, debit cards, electronic bill payments and check writing, as well as lending products through affiliates, such as Morgan Stanley Private Bank, National Association (MS Private Bank) and MSBNA, including securities-based lending, mortgage loans and home equity lines of credit. Global Wealth Management Group also provides trust and fiduciary services, offers access to cash management and commercial credit solutions to qualified small- and medium-sized businesses in the United States, and provides individual and corporate retirement solutions, including individual retirement accounts and 401(k) plans and the United States and global stock plan services to corporate executives and businesses. Global Wealth Management Group provides clients a variety of ways to establish a relationship and conduct business, including brokerage accounts with transaction-based pricing and investment advisory accounts with asset-based fee pricing.
Asset Management
The Company's portfolio managers located in the United States, Europe and Asia manage investment products ranging from money market funds to equity and fixed income strategies, alternative investment and merchant banking products in developed and emerging markets across geographies and market cap ranges. The Company offers a range of alternative investment, real estate investing and merchant banking products for institutional investors and high net worth individuals. The Company�� alternative investments platform includes funds of hedge funds, funds of private equity funds and portable alpha strategies. The Company�� alternative investments platform also includes minority interest in Lansdowne Partners, Avenue Capital Group and Traxis Partners LP. The Company�� real e! state and! merchant banking businesses include its real estate investing business, private equity funds, corporate mezzanine debt investing group and infrastructure investing group.
The Company acts as general partner of, and investment adviser to, its alternative investment, real estate and merchant banking funds. The Company provides investment management strategies and products to institutional investors worldwide, including corporations, pension plans, endowments, foundations, sovereign wealth funds, insurance companies and banks through a range of pooled vehicles and separate accounts. It also provides sub-advisory services to various unaffiliated financial institutions and intermediaries. The Company offers open-end and alternative investment funds and separately managed accounts to individual investors through affiliated and unaffiliated broker-dealers, banks, insurance companies, financial planners and other intermediaries. Closed-end funds managed by the Company are available to individual investors through affiliated and unaffiliated broker-dealers. The Company also distributes mutual funds through a range of retirement plan platforms. Internationally, the Company distributes traditional investment products to individuals outside the United States through distributors and distributes alternative investment products through affiliated broker-dealers and banks. The Company�� Operations and Information Technology departments provide or oversee the process and technology platform required to support its asset management business. Support activities include transfer agency, mutual fund accounting and administration, transaction processing and certain fiduciary services on behalf of institutional, intermediary and high net worth clients.
Advisors' Opinion:- [By Jon C. Ogg]
Market Vectors Indian Rupee/USD ETN (NYSEMKT: INR) and WisdomTree Indian Rupee (NYSEMKT: ICN) are both performing poorly as well in the currency exchange traded note (ETN) world, although their trading volume is too thin to monitor.
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